Facebook Messenger Marketing with Chatbots

Table of Contents

About Larry Kim

Larry Kim is the founder of WordStream, which is a suite of online marketing and advertising tools that helps businesses manage search engine marketing campaigns.

More recently, Larry is the CEO of MobileMonkey.

Mobile Monkey is the worlds best Facebook messengers marketing platform for marketers and companies of all sizes. It’s free and easy, it’s an online service that enables you to create powerful chat-bots without coding.

Larry Kim is one of the best and brightest minds in digital marketing. He’s the Google whisperer, the Albert Einstein of AdWords and the Pied Piper of unicorns.

If I could only follow one influencer now until the end of my days, it would be Larry Kim, that is how good his content is and how much advice has helped me over the … his advice has helped me over the years.

Phil Singleton: Larry, it’s a great honor, welcome to the show. Are you blushing? I can see you actually, you’re not, you’re a pro.

Larry Kim: Hey Phil, thanks for having me today and thanks for reaching out.

Phil Singleton: Awesome, so let’s just get started right in the chat-bots, I mean what are they and how does it help us specifically become better Facebook marketers?

…people keep talking about chat-bots and I think it’s just getting … it’s confusing marketers, okay, so I prefer actually not to talk about chat-bots. I’d prefer to just think of it as just Facebook messenger marketing

-Larry Kim

Larry Kim: You know, what people keep talking about chat-bots and I think it’s just getting … it’s confusing marketers, okay, so I prefer actually not to talk about chat-bots. I’d prefer to just think of it as just Facebook messenger marketing, okay. So, here’s the thing, you’re probably doing what … Twitter marketing, you’re probably doing Linked In marketing, you’re probably even doing regular Facebook marketing, correct. What I’m telling you is those are very small platforms, you know, like Linked In has a couple hundred million people, Twitter has a couple hundred million people, right, and Facebook is this really big platform but the organic rate is just awful, right.

So, the crazy thing here is that less than one percent of marketers are doing Facebook messenger marketing today, you see what I’m saying, the way that you do Facebook messenger marketing, it’s like blasting updates to your messenger contacts, it’s also like creating a big list of Facebook messenger contacts so that you can blast them, that kind of stuff. The way that you engage them is automatically … is kind of a chat-bot, but to your question … a chat-bot is kind of a means to an end, it’s sort of the technology that kind of engages users on messenger, where you can answer questions, you can … give surveys, all this good stuff, you can blast content.

That’s the chat-bot, but really it’s less about the chat-bot, it’s more about just Facebook messenger marketing, you know what I mean?

Phil Singleton: Yeah, and it’s like you were talking about before the show, really, I’m sitting here thinking oh my gosh, I’m way behind the game, because even guys like myself that have been in digital for 10 years plus, we know about chat-bots, we’ve heard about them, but until you really explained it how you did … kind of in the green room before the show, it really kind of dawned on me that you know, we’re doing this Facebook, we know that organic reach is dying or is completely dead, but you still see a lot of people still doing the basic kind of simple ad, which are almost … I don’t know if I’d say they’re completely useless, but it feels like they’re getting lower and lower ROI, worst return, and it feels just one of those types of tactics that you’ve been doing and maybe doesn’t work at all anymore.

Then here we start opening the door towards the messenger marketing and instantly I was like this makes perfect sense because that’s how people are engaging, that’s the way to get right at them and establish a conversation, so what I’d like to know is like … we were talking about this a little bit before the show also, is I’m thinking … when I first came to this preconceived notion that chat-bots, chat-bot builders, and even to some degree we’re kind of positioning this as a Facebook messenger marketing messaging, it feels more … the way it’s at least initially pitched as almost kind of this inbound tool, where people are coming to you and you’re converting things where they’re already kind of coming into your funnel, but you quickly opened my eyes and were like no, that’s only part of it, there’s this whole other aspect to it where you can build up your messenger list and actually start messaging out to people. Tell us a little bit how that works and why that’s so valuable?

The most interesting component in messenger marketing is chat blasting.

-Larry Kim

Larry Kim: Sure, you know, we’re talking … so chat-bots, you know, when you think of those you’re probably thinking of like automated virtual assistants, correct, like little robots that answer questions, and to me that’s not the most interesting part about Facebook messenger marketing. The most interesting component in messenger marketing is chat blasting, okay, like being able to have a hundred million contacts and blast them your latest blog post or you know, think of email marketing, you know, you’re probably doing email marketing correct to blog subscribers or whatever.

The problem with email marketing is because of all these really really aggressive spam filters, like the open rates and stuff like this is, you know, five or ten percent is pretty typical these days. You know, if you’re creating all this content I think the point is to have it consumed, correct, so like why would you also in addition to collecting email opt-ins, why not also collect Facebook messenger opt-ins, and there’s like 101 different ways you can do this, you know, less than 1 percent of marketers are actually doing any of this, but like … you know, the goal here is just like how in olden days like 20 years ago, the goal was to get lots of emails on your list so you could blast them and maybe 10 years ago the goal was to get lots of people to like our page, so that we can show up in their news feed, you know.

The goal today of marketers trying to make Facebook work, you know, from an organic perspective, should be to try to rack up the number of messenger contacts that they have so that we can engage with them on demand in a kind of one on one way that avoids the news feed, which has incredibly terrible reach right now.

Phil Singleton: And that’s the key right, trying to figure out how … I think in the old days and there’s a way … I even still thought about it to some extent even before we started talking this morning was, you know, you think about Facebook in terms of trying to build up people still, even though we know that kind of the Facebook organic is dead, I still think people are kind of trained in this thought where you’re trying to put good content out there and get engagement, maybe get more comments, get … ultimately some likes on the content, on the post, thinking … I guess … because we’ve just been conditioned that that’s somehow going to help us out, but that’s not … how do we try and get, you know, through your platform, how do we build … what are some tips to try and build your chat … your messenger list up?

Larry Kim: Well there’s a couple of ways, so one of the greatest ways of doing this is first, asking people to opt-in for messaging wherever your … on all of your pre-existing website forms. So you probably already have like a contact us page on your website probably, and you probably have like blog sign up pages that ask for email and name, just ad this little check-box that says opt-in.
Phil Singleton: So pretty much everywhere you’ve got anywhere where you’re trying to have people contact or sign up, you’re adding a component where there’s some way for them to opt-in to your messenger platform.

Larry Kim: It’s just a little check box, so if you use MobileMonkey, we can create some code snippets that you can insert into your forms so that if they check the box and they submit the form that then … then they’re automatically opted into messaging, so they’re added to your contact names.

Phil Singleton: That’s awesome. So then we also talked in the intro how it’s like … you’re saying this isn’t really positioned to be like an advanced content marketing thing so much where it’s like … only for large or small business or enterprise customers, when we said in the beginning, you know, in the intro to the show that it’s really easy for companies of all sizes. Is that truly the case, does the local plumber and these guys that are just being on social media, does this kind of stuff apply to them too or is … you still think of this … because I’m thinking to myself I feel pretty stupid right now, like I don’t have one, one because I followed you for so long, two because you’ve been so successful with ad-words and word streams so obviously if you’re doing it there’s some benefit to it, but what do you think … what’s been the hurdle to get more people onto it, or are there tons of people and I’m just way behind the game?

Larry Kim: So the weird thing about this particular opportunity is that Facebook has released Facebook messenger API, okay, so like if you’re a software engineer you can use these API’s to create messenger experiences, okay, but in this case it’s one of these weird cases where they’ve released all this functionality in an API but they didn’t expose it in the business manager, so if you go into business manager like okay I’m ready to create my chat-bot, there’s no way to do this, okay.

Phil Singleton: I see, so they … they kind of enabled it but they didn’t make it easy through their platform or even access it?

Larry Kim: Well what they’re doing is they are relying on third parties like Mobile Monkey to build these experiences … tools and platforms to build and host these chat-bot Facebook messenger marketing experiences and that’s what we’ve done.

Phil Singleton: So one of the things I want to clarify too because I think when we start talking about chat-bots, immediately the thing we’re starting to think about, at least myself and I’m sure this happens to a lot of other … just business owners and digital marketers is you’re thinking about the traditional kind of little pop up on the side window that still happens to this day where it’s kind of this live chat, either a managed live chat or one of these live chat services, so it’s obviously that part of the component about it and we talked in the beginning of this show how okay, this is a Facebook messenger platform, we can get in and we can actually start engaging with people directly through Facebook and into peoples messenger, but there’s this other component where you have Mobile Monkey where we can actually … there is a live chat component where you can embed that on the website, use some of the automated features to start doing some … you know, frequently asked questions and engagement on your website, and as a way I guess as people come in you can actually check the box and get them into your … opt into your platform.
How does it work with that kind of traditional way that people kind of think about chatting, you know, the chatting services?

Larry Kim: Sure, so chat isn’t new, it’s been around for like 20 years, I’d say like … 10, 20, 30 percent of websites have these pop up chat experiences and I think those are a little primitive for a couple of reasons. Firstly, they are manually staffed, so there’s a human operator on the other side of that chat experience that is reading and responding to questions, so that’s why so few companies use live chat, it’s because it costs a lot of money to just have a full time person answering all these darned questions, and most of these questions are really stupid questions, like they’re just the same dumb questions that they are too lazy to look on your website for, you know what I mean.

Phil Singleton: Yes.

Larry Kim: So …

Phil Singleton: So it’s expensive, it’s expensive because people are answering the same questions all the time?

Larry Kim: It’s also really inconvenient for the user because you know, maybe the person is staffing the line or maybe it’s … gone for the day, you know, it’s not 24/7, and you know, there’s always … for these big websites like you know, Delta or United, there’s always like a wait, you know what I mean, you’re waiting … there’s 10 people ahead of you, you know.

Phil Singleton: Yes.

Larry Kim: So it’s not instantaneous, so chat-bots, they make it immediate. They can respond to a lot of questions right away …

Phil Singleton: Even if you had a hybrid thing you could still chat-bot somebody into a position where you can kind of know what they want and then pass it along.

Larry Kim: Yeah, it’s like you can do triaging, that’s where the chat-bot kind of handles 50-60 percent of the stupid questions and then you can just have a live operator take over if the chat-bot has no idea what you’re talking about.

Phil Singleton: Well the other light bulb that’s been going off right now is even if you have that kind of a solution, why couldn’t I use something like Mobile Monkey, swap it out with one of the older ones that’s still kind of that one dimensional old school way of chatting, because if you had somebody who had service right now and you started chatting with them, even if you did it … you know, maybe just did a couple front end questions where you’re automating some of that process, couldn’t you use that opportunity to then build your messenger list where you could then use it to market, where I think a lot of these guys that are maybe using live chat like right now are losing an opportunity to build that list and re-market to people, right?

Larry Kim: Exactly, so when someone closes a website window with a chat operator, the business has no way to get back in touch with them, okay, but if instead you’re using the Mobile Monkey chat widget, the website chat widget, you know, kind of where the conversation goes through messenger, so … basically you can send them push notifications forever until they unsubscribe.
Phil Singleton: So awesome.

Larry Kim: And …

Phil Singleton: I mean this is so awesome, the only thing I was going to ask you, and I mean I’m sure you guys have this with your platform and I look forward to really digging into now because I’m really excited about it, bad ways to do it? I mean obviously I guess we could use your tool or other tools like it to do bad things and maybe … can you get banned, can your account get banned, what are the kinds of things you have to look out for in terms of being maybe too aggressive or doing it wrong?

Larry Kim: Well you know it’s not like email marketing where you can just go to zoom info and buy a big list of emails, you know what I mean, and just send unsolicited email. I have no way of blasting you Phil, unless you first message my bot, okay.

Phil Singleton: The opt-ins really strong, okay.

Larry Kim: And … yeah, and because it’s all going through a centralized repository, you know what I mean, email, the problem is it’s too easy to just acquire emails without permission, you know.
Phil Singleton: So some safety there because they kind of … you’re only really going to be able to market to people that have clearly opted in.

Larry Kim: Yeah. The other thing is they have … we have a built in unsubscribe, so once you say stop or unsubscribe, you know, we enforce that, like you can’t message this person anymore unless they re opt-in by messaging you in the future, because obviously you’ll need to respond to that, you know.

Phil Singleton: So frequency wise, if you start abusing your user because you don’t have something valuable to say, you’re just going to get unsubscribed and your list is going to whittle down to nothing?

Larry Kim: Yeah, I mean I have heard of some pages, they get banned based on having an enormous number of complaints, you know, like where … because they can actually report you or they can block you, you know, like … you can block contacts on messenger. You know, it’s rare, I mean the thing is there’s no way of getting people on your list that didn’t really engage with you in the first place, you know what I mean. They’re not going to be that shocked to get a message from the business that they were engaging with today, you know, because it’s like oh, I remember, I had that conversation with them on messenger, you see what I’m saying. So, as long as … you know, the content isn’t so ridiculous like … if it was like helpful, you know, as opposed to just shocking ridiculous content, then you should be fine.

Phil Singleton: So, I’d like to ask you a couple of things, but where do you think we are in terms of this being deployed more … is it still pre mainstream?  I know it’s been a really hot digital marketing topic.

Listen, for marketing, it’s not about doing the same channel over and over for 100 years, my whole career, I’ve made a career of kind of being able to tell what are the hot channels.

-Larry Kim

Larry Kim:  This is the year, okay, the growth hack of 2018 is to use something like Mobile Monkey to get … start Facebook messenger. Listen, for marketing, it’s not about doing the same channel over and over for 100 years, my whole career, I’ve made a career of kind of being able to tell what are the hot channels.

Phil Singleton: Yes.

Larry Kim: You know, and kind of positioning yourself …

Phil Singleton: Yes.

Larry Kim: Every company in the world that ever became something just took advantage of a growth channel at the right time, companies like Craigslist or eBay, these were all SEO plays, like they would create billions of pages of content, remember.

Phil Singleton: Yeah.

Larry Kim: Same with Expedia, Expedia was partially an ad play where when the ads were cheap they would just create every ad for every hotel and something, so the hot channel right now is Facebook messenger marketing, it’s … in terms of penetration, you know there’s 1.3 billion daily active users on the platform, okay, so … your customers are probably there and you know, the actually penetration of businesses doing this, it’s less than 200,000 active companies are doing this, 200,000 companies, but Facebook has something like 100,000,000 active company pages. That’s .2 percent, so you know, that’s 1 out of 500 companies are doing this right now.

Phil Singleton: We’re still way ahead of the game on this but it’s on fire right now.

Larry Kim: Well here’s the thing, in the next two to three years, like 30-40 percent of companies will be doing this, so it’s like … this month is still hot, next month is hot, but like in the next … it’s not going to go on … it’s like every marketing channel has this kind of curve, where it’s like the early adopters get all the benefits, you know, and then the late adopters are kind of just trying to get their little scraps at the table.

Phil Singleton: Right, right, and then lastly I wanted to say … we were talking about earlier, which I thought was really interesting, a lot of the new Facebook … regular Facebook advertising in terms of building your opt-in list for your chat-bot, you can do it on just drive ads, you were saying a great way to do this is to just build ads and then to drive them to your messenger, like a direct messenger ad. You can also … I don’t know if we were talking about [inaudible 00:17:51] a little bit, but as you were talking I’m like, well why does it have … you could drive lots of different things, I mean, why couldn’t you use ad-words or even SEO to …

Larry Kim: Sure, sure, so … you can. So, basically you create these chat pages, so in your head you’ve got to think of Facebook messenger chat as like replacements for landing pages. So, you’re an advertising so you … whenever you create a campaign you’re thinking okay, where are we going to send this traffic to.

Phil Singleton: And me personally as an SEO person, I’d like to try and do as much as I can on my domain, so if there’s a way I can embed it or … it scares me a little bit to send it to Facebook but …

Larry Kim: So here’s the thing, so you’re creating this content and you’re pushing people to some webpage on your site, usually it’s a landing page or sign up for a webinar or something like this, so what I’m saying is you can replace that landing page experience with a chat experience, where the chat bot just says okay, what time do you want to register for, Monday at 9 AM or 12 PM, you know what I mean, and then … just enter your email to confirm your registration. You can create chat based registration pages, okay, now in Facebook ads, most of the money is actually spent on something stupid called a click campaign, okay, there’s different campaign types. One of them is an engagement campaign, one of them is a click campaign, but those are the top two ones where people spend 80-90 percent of the money, okay.

I’m telling you those are kind of a waste of money, do you know why it’s a waste of money?

Phil Singleton: I want to hear it.

Larry Kim: Because if you’re doing a Facebook click campaign in 2018 you’re paying like 3, 4, 5 dollars a click, okay, that’s how expensive it is, 3, 4, 5 dollars a click to some web page, to some offer that typically converts at 2 or 3 percent, okay. So you’re going to have to buy 100 clicks to get 2 conversions, you know, and they are charging say 4 dollars a click, okay. The remaining 98 percent of people who you paid for, you don’t know who they are and you have no way to get back to them, right, so the alternative to this is running a chat blast, send to messenger campaign. It’s a brand new ad campaign format in messenger, okay.

What you can do is you just pay for people who message your bot, okay, so if someone messages your ad, that’s called send to messenger, okay, so they’re sending some message to your bot, your bot can then respond to it and kind of walk them through the webinar sign up page flow. Even if they don’t finish the form, they only fill out one field or even if they say hello and you don’t even know who they are, you know who they are, Facebook gives you … they’ve opted in. So you have their name …

Phil Singleton: You showed it to me, yeah, you showed me the list, how that works, that’s great.

Larry Kim: Their profile photo, you have their location, language.

Phil Singleton: Is it a case where you’re getting more info and better engagement for about the same 3 to 4 dollars or is it even less?

Larry Kim: It’s in the conversion rate, you’re getting a 100 percent conversion rate, so instead of getting 2 or 3 percent …

Phil Singleton: Right, okay.

Larry Kim: … of the people who click on your ads and you’re paying for, to be able to contact them back via email, which is crappy because email is just crap, you know, you’re getting 100 percent of that contact information of people who’ve messaged you, who’ve engaged with your ad.

Phil Singleton: Yes.

Larry Kim: And you can re-engage with them using messenger marketing, which has a much higher native engagement rate than email, it’s like 10 times higher.

Phil Singleton: Awesome, I mean I’ve never really been this fired up to start something, or you know, that’s the best way though, to feel like you are kind of missing the boat a little bit and now it’s like ah ha, I kind of finally get it. Sometimes it just takes a little bit of time like this to understand what’s going on.

Larry Kim: Anyone who comes through that send to messenger ad, you get their information and they’ve opted into messenger, that’s just so amazing because all these other engagement campaigns on Facebook like boost posts and all this crap, they like it or they comment on it but you don’t have their … you don’t have the permission to push notify them with your updates, but here you do.

Phil Singleton: Is this … did you see … so this evolved for you or did you see right away that this was the opportunity or how was it … what was the light bulb moment for you?
Larry Kim: What … Word Stream is an incredible company with like 400 people and 10’s of thousands of customers and I would not leave Word Stream willingly.

Phil Singleton: Totally, I mean I think that’s why everybody in this space is like well if Larry’s doing it there’s got to be a lot here.

Larry Kim: The only reason why … well maybe people can start to realize why I would leave, is because this is an enormous opportunity for marketers, this is like … I mean this is bigger than SMS messaging, it’s bigger than email marketing, you see what I’m saying?

Phil Singleton: Yeah, totally.

Larry Kim: It’s like Facebook ads that actually work, you know, it’s like email marketing that actually gets read, you know.

Phil Singleton: Right.

Larry Kim: It’s …

Phil Singleton: Was there a light bulb thing or I mean … did you see it right away, was it as soon as they opened the API up you jumped on it or … how did Mobile Monkey day 1 start, I mean, what was the initial thing, we’ve got to do this?

Larry Kim: You know, it’s … you were talking about the 5,000 companies, you know, and I was just thinking about my next thing and I reviewed all 5,000 of them, like kind of trying to see which one was interesting and they were all either donkeys or that they … it’s kind of things like HubSpot, where there’s kind of a category killer and it’s just … why would you start something in that space at this point, you know, your kind of late.

Phil Singleton: What really fires me up right now is just talking about the opportunity, it’s not like you started this last year, whenever it was, a year and a half ago and you … I mean I’m looking at your face and you’re completely glowing and fired up, so sure of it and that’s awesome, and it really fires me up, so that’s awesome.

Larry Kim: Look, this is the … it’s very similar to what you’re already doing in email except that it gets …

Phil Singleton: Except it works, yeah, and this is the … it’s so … it makes perfect sense, I mean people … email, it’s in there, it’s lost or you get … it’s almost like you’re looking for the good stuff and you know most of it’s going to be junk or whatever but there’s so much engagement in messenger, I mean we’re so conditioned to looking at our messages and stuff.

…another problem with friggen corporate emails, is like … they actually go stale of a rate around 2-3 percent per month

-Larry Kim

Larry Kim: Even email marketing, another problem with friggen corporate emails, is like … they actually go stale of a rate around 2-3 percent per month, so like … people switch jobs, you know, it’s like this acid just deteriorates. If you have a big valuable list, next month it’s like you’ve lost 3 percent of it, you see what I’m saying.

Phil Singleton: This is just amazing.

Larry Kim: Where it’s like … people tend not to have two or three different messenger accounts, it’s like mobile numbers, like you only have one phone that you carry around unless like, you know, it’s typically you have one mobile. So it’s just more valuable, you’ll be able to stay connected to these people, one on one forever, until they opt out. It’s on you to come up with something interesting to keep the engaged.

Phil Singleton: Awesome, so people like us are really fired up right now, how do we get more info? I mean you showed me some awesome slides, which you said you were going to send me, but I mean I know you must have some … I know you do have some webinars coming up, what’s the best way to like really learn about this and get to people right away so they can get up to speed and start deploying it, you know, in their company or for their clients I think, like I’m thinking right now firstly I’ve got to do it for myself.

Larry Kim: So Mobile Monkey is a free product, you can use it for free, there’s no limit on number of contacts, like if you have hundreds of thousands of messenger contacts, that’s fine, okay, it’s a free product, it never expires, it’s not like a seven day trial, it goes forever, okay. So the easiest way to do it is to sign up for that thing, you know, today, Mobilemonkey.com, click on the sign up link. Link that account to your Facebook page and then start collecting contacts because it gets really interesting once you start collecting contacts, you know. I’m collecting like 20, 30, 40 contacts per day and this is just the most interesting marketing channel that I’ve ever experienced.

Phil Singleton: Awesome … actually, can you just go on and do it and there’s some kind of onboard, I mean, is there something on your site where we can go ebook read something to kind of get up to speed quickly?

Larry Kim: Yeah, go to mobilemonkey.com/chatbots, so maybe you can …

Phil Singleton: We’ll put that in the show notes for sure, yeah.

Larry Kim: It’s just a 20 minute video on how to do everything we’re talking about, like when you see it … when you see it it’s like oh my god, I get it.

Phil Singleton: Alright.

Larry Kim: Yeah.

Phil Singleton: What about your favorite places for people to catch up with you, follow you online, I don’t really … me personally, I don’t do Twitter as much anymore, I’m not … never been a real big Facebook user, I do use it, I do it for business, I’m on Linked In all the time, that’s where I follow you always. Is that the best place or are you just kind of active on all of them, what’s your favorite … what is your favorite social media platform?

Larry Kim: I’m on all of them because I use it in the car, so like in the … I take Ubers to work, I don’t have a car, so I’m on it like 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening on all the different platforms, so I’ll check Twitter, Facebook, and Linked In, but Linked In is a good one too.

Phil Singleton: Awesome, ladies and gentlemen this has been phenomenal, I’m literally … the next thing I’m going to do this morning as soon as my day gets going is I’m going sign up and start deploying this, I have to apologize to Larry for following him for so long and not actually ever you know, trying this, but now it’s just an absolute no brainer. I’m excited about using it for my own company and for … you know, we’ve got scores of clients, I’m thinking about several of them right now, because a lot of them are actually signing up for … and it’s just blowing my mind, a lot of them are actually starting to … you’re starting to see this other surge, what I’m seeing locally, is people are signing up more for managed chat services. So they use … they put the live chat services on their website, the old school one, nobody manned it so they just turned it off or stopped paying, then you get to another group of companies that are coming in and actually selling … and it’s expensive to do it and it’s so one dimensional and it’s …

When you talked about having somebody internal, think about having to pay somebody outside to man it and then answer somebody else’s questions and you’re still not get … so that’s just blowing my mind right now is this would be just a cheaper way of getting it …

Larry Kim: This is a third way that is neither fully manual nor outsourced, you know?

Phil Singleton: Lastly, is it possible for a third party to come in and use it as part of their third party delivery? Let’s say I had my own managed chat service and I wanted to say … I’m going to sell certain … I’m going to manage your clients … I can do that for them?

Larry Kim: Yeah, you just add them to your Facebook managers, your list of Facebook managers.

Phil Singleton: They can automate some of it and then they can actually do some hands on stuff where it really had to get passed off and they would be building your chat bot list and helping you maybe do some marketing later, so it’s like minimum three to four times benefit.

Larry Kim: Every time you get a question more than once you should create the answer for that so that the robot can automatically answer that.

Phil Singleton: Really appreciate having you this show, this was phenomenal, thank you very much Larry Kim.

Larry Kim: Alright, thanks Phil, great to see you, great to meet you.